Template talk:Character buttons

Voiddp, do you mind if I/we change the button from "Strategy" to be named as "Tier list" or some such?

The natural interpretation of that word is that they are "generalized strategy tips"...which they are *not*. Also, the fact that these are integrated across every one of the hundreds of character pages across the entire wiki contributes to making it seem like these are the "official" tips offered by the wiki authors & maintainers.

Therefore, it makes the wiki seem elitist, where the only thing that we care about are Superboss battling tips, and we offer little acknowledgement of such QoL farming activities as Kid and Colette stealing, or to design 1TnoAFs to use in ADs, the new area at highest difficulty setting, and even some types of less-difficult Superboss fights e.g. a harpooning circuit through the horrors (for those who want to design their own approach using basic principles rather than look up an existing solution, yet do not want to start completely from scratch by having to read through every character page on the entire wiki). However, using Noahxis' fixed-damage attack, or Violet Lancer's offering all allies (except AS Lele) to do 0-mp attacks on the 1st turn, or AS Otoha offering Battle End HP & MP restore, etc. are also valid types of strategy, thus these type-II / "false negative" omissions not meeting up to expectations creates a problem for new and rare visitors to the wiki.

Intentional or not, it makes the blurbs seem to overreach beyond what they claim to be (again, using the natural interpretation of that word). **It seems to me though that if these were re-named to "wiki tier list rankings" or something shorter but still precise such as "tier list", it would completely solve that issue, and I think it would help make the wiki more welcoming to newer players?**

(although you might need to purge the cache of all the character pages as a result of that change?)

Related to this, and not something I can help with b/c the Template:CharacterTier is protected, the fact that these are even related to the wiki tier list is not so readily apparent - especially on a mobile device, which I don't know the traffic stats for the wiki but definitely makes up a large proportion of web traffic overall these days.

If you re-examine with fresh eyes from the perspective of a new visitor to the site, that link is *very* small, and easily missed. The differential shading of the row containing the Type of the attack below the link further redirects the eye towards that and away from the ranking, as does the comparatively very large portrait to the left, as well as the extremely wide areas both to the right and left of the ratings link.

It is true that the ratings link is bolded & blue, and also the link is extended beyond the text to helpfully include the icon, and yet...it's still extremely small overall, and buried amidst rather large blocks surrounding it on all sides of that. Overall the portion that is an actual link to the tier list is maybe 5% of the whole table? And with links in the left column, but no other links in the rest of the vertical central column, it really does look like there is no link there, to someone not diligently looking for it.

Especially on a mobile, and even on a desktop, for some reason it seems to pause for multiple (at least >1) seconds before the tooltip shows up. So even for someone who *is* trying to be diligent, it can be easily skipped over.

So I suggest also that the fact that these "Strategy" pages link back to the wiki tier list be made more readily apparent, somehow - perhaps a sentence at the top like "These are the ratings from the [wiki tier list](https://anothereden.wiki/w/User:Bamiji/Tier_List):", or maybe category links at the bottom, or longer text like "Rating = S" instead of just "S" to make the blue & boldness of the text more easily visually cued that it is a link, or something.

But mostly I wanted to note that this issue further exasperates the above, making it look even more like these "Strategy" tips are for generalized strategy, and official wiki tips, rather than reflecting the subset of strategy that applies to challenge fights in the game.

Strategy pages are editable, its possible to add more tips outside of tier list templates, if you care to add them for some chars, dont have to keep those tier list templates there alone. But noone cared beside bamiji to add any "strategy" stuff in last few years

examples exist tho like:

https://anothereden.wiki/w/Radica_(Another_Style)/Strategy/Ratings

or here https://anothereden.wiki/w/Hismena_(Another_Style)/Strategy/Ratings

Can add it in skill and transclude on strategy page the same, or just write something up there directly. There is no stopping anyone, beside touching tier list info.

and yes i still like strategy word as much as i was when i made those buttons, because now those pages contain the most explanations about how those chars can be used.

can even go and win space from bamiji by placing buttons on top manually and placing your info first. Just add some strategy info there.

as example buttons > info > tier list info here

https://anothereden.wiki/w/Lele_(Another_Style)/Strategy/Ratings

Thank you for the quick reply. I do agree that if the Strategy pages really can be made to be comprehensive then it is a perfect name for it rather than overreaching in that case and I apologize for misunderstanding. I am still missing something though - all 3 of those examples show, as you mentioned, a transclusion from the skill page. However, how do you get the transclusion into the Strategy page itself - or rather I see how *you* did it, but how would *I*, since those Strategy/Ratings pages are protected?

I do see that "Strategy" itself is not protected, but this Template:Character buttons coding points directly to Strategy/Ratings, with the only exception being when there is an AS and yet not already a Strategy/Rankings. I also see where I can change this Template:Character buttons itself to add any number of a variety of effects, but I am hesitant to do that if there is a better way as you seemed to suggest? Plus, since buttons can only ever point to a single page at a time, it seems like I would have to add an additional "layer" in-between anything I want to add and then also show Bamiji's content as well -> but surely that isn't what you meant since that seems to subvert the purpose of having protected it, right?

For me, when I look at e.g. "https://anothereden.wiki/w/Hismena_(Another_Style)/Strategy/Ratings", the button changes from Edit to View source, which then says: "You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reason: This action is restricted to the following user groups: tierlist" (which https://anothereden.wiki/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&group=tierlist says is a group consisting solely of Bamiji, although you ofc as an administrator, along with Bamiji, Raidsmash, Elaeagnifolia, etc. don't actually need to abide by those rules:-). Interestingly, this is a very different message showing up from Module: or Template:CharacterTier where instead it says "This page has been protected to prevent editing or other actions." So I do see where e.g. on April-May 2021 you added the H2 and then the 2 skill transclusions to AS Hismena's Strategy/Ratings page, and in April 2023 you added AS Lele's Stream Glare transclusion, and from April to July 2021 you added AS Radica's -> but how would *I* do such a thing? e.g. for Kid being able to steal and Noahxis having a fixed-dmg attack useful for farming, without being a member of this group? Should I request to be added to it? Was this a mistake to lock it to only this group? Did you mean something else other than just edit that page? Or did you mean to go ahead and add such a separate layer in-between the clicking of the button and the showing of the protected page? (I just know that while *I* am friendly, once I open that door...what will others do who may follow? Decide *not* to show those tier list ranking blurbs? Even unintentionally?)

TLDR: are Strategy pages really meant to be editable by normal users? Bc currently they are not.

Will look into how to do some other structure. Probably need to use character/strategy pages then... And show them in buttons too

there you go, divided locked Ratings pages from Strategy and made buttons for both.

now then next problem - content.
Ratings pages were not locked in old wiki and still there wasn't info there beside tier list ratings in most cases. Hopefully it wont be just another red button forever.

remade Hisu, Radica and Lele examples to new format.

• Format is just "add {{Character buttons}} + any text or table info people will want to add"
• Skill transclusion cases like for those chars, better to be as transclusions to just not double same texts for editing, but still collect specific skill tips in 1 place.
  • but need to remember to wrap such skills in tag on their pages, to not create skill doubles in db.

This is awesome, thank you!:-)

Like Lore, the red Strategy links do serve a purpose I suppose, in showing people that they can create these pages, rather than have to piece together a URL on their own and find or guess that it will get added. It's like all those "page to edit" links throughout the wiki: kinda ugly and in the case of the red even attention-grabbing, although the Discussion links are already similar in that respect. Some may literally never get filled even, especially the 3★ ones:-(.

But I do think it makes the wiki seem much more welcoming and friendly to people to allow edits like that! Hopefully we don't regret it by people posting misinformation, but that's always a concern everywhere, and this at least can help get the ball rolling by seeing what they tried to convey and fix it, at which point through the painful process it becomes better than it was before...hopefully:-).